Curse

Bad Apache · Jun 26, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

This thread is pointless. You have no question, no arguement, no topic up for discussion. Just another spam thread about monks.

Anakin The Paladin · Jun 26, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I have a warrior and a monk so heres my opinion:As My Warrior im fine with 1 monk because im good with self healing if i need to be.But when im a monk i like to have two monks just in case.Now i only use 2 monks on harder things but normally im comfortable with only me as the monk.So I think people want to monks for more support and so its easier on the monks.

Riceboi · Jun 26, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

OP:
So you're one of those annoying morons that thinks one monk will do. Two healing sources is only fair to the team and the monks. It's too much pressure on the monk with only one IMO. Whenever I monk I DEMAND another healer or I find another group. And yes I've been the only healer before and made the WHOLE team survive. Was it fun? NO Do I play Guild Wars for fun? Yes

Does-it-Matter · Jun 26, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riceboi

OP:
So you're one of those annoying morons that thinks one monk will do. Two healing sources is only fair to the team and the monks. It's too much pressure on the monk with only one IMO. Whenever I monk I DEMAND another healer or I find another group. And yes I've been the only healer before and made the WHOLE team survive. Was it fun? NO Do I play Guild Wars for fun? Yes

There is no logical reason why ANet would design a game that has a variety of professions but requires 25% or more of any party to be one of those professions.

Think about it, right now, monks make up 12.5% (statistically, realism will vary) of the professions. Following that line, most parties would be about 12.5% comprised with monks. What we see in the trend everyone talks about is 25% or more.

That leaves 75% of the party to be comprised with 87.5% of the remaining professions. So we lose balance, we lose variation and we get "cookie cutter" builds.

Just wait how bad it is in Chapter 4 when there are 12 professions (monks at that point will make up a statistical 8.33% of the population.) At that point, we would need 3 times as many monk players than ANY other profession just to keep up with the 2-monk demand. And this isn't including how many monks just become solo farmers.

--

With that out of the way, I'll move on to the mentality of things.

What is the primary reason everyone wants 2 monks?

In my opinion, safety. They want to play it safe, they are already calculating in that the Whammos will over-aggro, that two or more people will err7 or rage quit, the assassins will die when someone sneezes, the ranger is going to plant flowers rather than do anything, the nuker is going to burn out of energy or over-exhaust, etc

They EXPECT to FAIL, and so they plan around that.

I've been in several groups that have said "Eh, let's just try it" in reference to going without 2 monks when they can't be found. Guess what? I would say a majority worked out fine.

I've also been in no-monk groups. Those are often more fun. The 'danger level' is much more present, you have to *gasp* think and be careful. Every class has self-heals, every class has access to res signets.

Once people get over their fear of failure, passed their expectation to fail, they can see the true dynamics that Guild Wars offers.

Tanks are not essential to a group.

Monks are a SUPPORTIVE profession, not a required one.

Mesmers CAN be a good addition to a group. Rangers and Assassins as well.

---

If you want to try experimentation, to see the true dynmaics Guild Wars offers and to see how different professions can synergize... invite the first 7 people to your group, regardless of who they are. (Now as a side note... idiots can hurt any group, even if there are 7 monks and 1 idiot, so those situations you just have to ignore.)

There's also nothing wrong with wanting to "build" a PUG. That is after all why we can chose are team mates. (Another side note... I'd love to see this game if every mission was ran randomly like Fort Aspenwood or the such. Granted there would definately be an issue with leechers that would need to be addressed, but I think people would get passed their fear then.)

Just don't think that 2 monks are essential to any group. No profession is required. Then, maybe we can get passed the "2 Tank, 2 Nuker, 2 Monks, MM and SS for EVERYTHING" build.

Maxiemonster · Jun 26, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

1 good Monk = 2 decent Monks = 3 bad Monks

Some Monks can solo heal any mission, but some can't even do a third. Some groups need less healing because they aggro wisely, some need more healing then one Monk can give because they aggro like complete morons.
You don't need 2 Monks, but in a PUG, you really don't know if your team can aggro or not, and you don't know if the Monk(s) you invited can handle their job(s) so I advice taking 2 Monks, just in case they're not that great.

Malice Black · Jun 26, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

2 monks are only needed if ya got a group full of newbs/noobs/pugs

just like ppl wanting a battery for fissure..not needed but ppl dont like thinking outside the box in this game

1 monk is perfectly fine if most can self-heal to a reasonable standard and u allow rest breaks for regen

PUG: regen? wtf u noob!! (logs) <~~happened many a time in FoW

oljomo · Jun 27, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Hi

" monks is IMO a must for pugs, fo rthe simple reason that one monk can cope, so you need two :P

The amount of times i have been in a group and seen the other monk either pure smiting, or not healing (if i think theyre not i stop for a bit watch their char and see if tehy heal, but wont let anyone actuially die)

The other thing is, that having two monks will generally make things go faster, and faster is better (this is going faster, not rushing and dieing so going slower)

oljomo

Fluffyx · Jun 27, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulu123

I have noticed a new trend since Factions has started. Every group I have been in whether for some quest or a mission insists on getting two monks!!!

I am aware that there are some hellish missions out there like THK, Ring of Pure "Hell" missions, etc. But I think this obsession with two priests each and EVERY time is becoming too much.

And if this game does need two priests for everything then something needs to be changed in the quest/mission design.

From Dragons lair on two monks have always been standard in groups. Are they needed? no. I just completed Hells Precepice with Me playing monk A necro 2 rangers and an Ele. It definately makes the missions easier in my oppinion though.

AndrewAtHome · Jun 27, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

I usually like to have a healer and a prot in my pugs. However for the THK bonus we had 3 monks - a healer, a prot, and another using a combination. We sorted the bonus, very easily.

With the ammount of new kamikaze 'sins and whammos about since factions, I like to have 2 monks when in Cantha to keep up with the fast pace of the careless attackers. As an ele, I just watch and laugh as pugs with only 1 monk go tits-up because someone's decided they're indestructible and ends up face down in the dirt. Seriously, you need 2 Mo's, almost always. I don't trust Rt/Mo's too much yet because I just don't think their restoration is as effective, but that's just my opinion form what I've seen so far...

Malice Black · Jun 27, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

speed kills...take the mission slowly then you have no problems

what i hate is

getting invited to a group, entering mission then..

KID: hurry up noob!! i only have 5mins b4 my dinner is ready..the wammo (99% of the time its wammos) then goes and aggros every group..dies calls the monks noobs then logs <<this is why i no longer do missions with anyone beside hench

OMFGimCUTE · Jun 27, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

ive done THK with 1 hench monk and every one els had self heal becouse we couldent find a monk and we did the mission pretty fast, we had no prob with it

Malice Black · Jun 27, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

yea lets face it THK wasnt hard tho

watch the king..man the catapults..job done

Criminally Sane · Jun 27, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakarr

Guild Wars is at best when most of your party members are guild members.

QFT... You know the quality of your support if they're guildies. With a pug, you don't know if the monks will heal just like you don't know if the warriors will tank. That E/W might be using armor of earth and an axe with attrib points in fire and hammer. I think two monks are required for pugs because the chances of one being almost useless are pretty high. [sarcasm] Breeze spammers ftw. <.< [/sarcasm]

I pwnd U · Jun 27, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I usually go with 2 monks, though 2 monks is not a must. As stated before people just want two monks because they dont have to think about what they are doing. The only time i am the only monk is when i go with my guildies. That is because they are smart. They dont run in and aggro everythign they can and expect me to heal. They dont get mad when i say my energy is low. Most groups get mad and ask why i dont have any energy management skills. They dont think that maybe my energy regen skills are recharging. People just get into a rythem where they dont have to do anythign except pick a target and hit space bar and maybe 1 or 2. You can do almost all the missions with just 1 monk. Alliance battles for example usually only have one monk in them if that. I have won many battles when i was the only monk due to the fact that i healed only the NPC's. Why? Because they are the what helps you win. Players that die are resurrected automatically with no DP. So really the monks need to be smart as well. If they dont overheal and dont do stupid things like aggro groups, everyone should turn out ok.

Parson Brown · Jun 27, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59

It's funny, but my monk was my favorite character in Prophecies, but I don't really enjoy playing him in Factions... and I think it is because of the two monks.

First off, people seem to have devalued Protection, because groups all want two healers. I hate playing two healers because if I have good communication with the other monk, it's far too easy keeping three people alive. If there's poor communication, we're healing the same targets all mission.

Second: With Master's rating based on time in most cases, the emphasis needs to be on dealing out tons of damage, killing mobs and running to the next mob. Two monks (and often a Communing Rit) sucks too much offense out of the team.

Most of the best groups I have been a part of in Factions had a monk and a Communing Rit. That's all it takes.

And a final note: As a monk, I never expect others to take a self-heal. I'd prefer them to worry about doing their jobs. The best way to help me is to avoid as much damage as possible by not standing in DoT areas and not powering through hexes like Spiteful Spirit and whatnot.

Riceboi · Jun 27, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

KID: hurry up noob!! i only have 5mins b4 my dinner is ready..the wammo (99% of the time its wammos) then goes and aggros every group..dies calls the monks noobs then logs <<this is why i no longer do missions with anyone beside hench

LOLz So funny because it's happens a lot.
(I hate "QFT" and I hate anyone that uses it, thxkggbye) lol

Deepjay · Jun 27, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

I think factions groups need two monks because basically, the average assasin needs a whole monk for him/her alone. I play a boon prot in pvp, healer in pve and christ 9 out of 10 pug assasins go down faster than a 2 dollar RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, seconds into combat. Once they've soaked up my energy so that the other party members begin to suffer, they're ressed, rinse and repeat.

noblepaladin · Jun 27, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Two monks are definitely not needed. With only one monk, things may get tough, but if everybody designs their build around it then it's not hard at all. One of the builds I use on my warrior does not need any healing at all, I can keep myself healed fine. However, most PUG warriors require healing or they will die within a few seconds. Some PUG Necros playing MM would just sacrifice themselves to death if they don't get healed. Basically, many players have designed their builds assuming there are two healers healing them.

There are other very good alternatives to 2 monks. As a monk player, I prefer having a good mesmer on my team rather than another monk. Two monks won't keep the entire team alive when those crazy ele bosses fire off their 2x damage, 2x fast cast, 2x fast recharge spells. A mesmer will prevent it from happening completely. A ranger can do it pretty well too. An illusion mesmer can shut down several melee enemies and do significant damage in the process, effectively "tanking" them, it's possible to do missions with no "tanks" at all. There is no need for a secondary healer if the damage never occurs in the first place. However, the most popular way of playing the game is to have tanks, nukers or minion master, and 2 monks. It works well in many missions, and doesn't work well in others (which is why there are certain missions that many people regularly complain about).

Too bad it's hard to find a party that is willing to try something out of the ordinary.

LouAl · Jun 27, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Definitely not needed.

I played monk for a group going through the Dragon's Lair with no other monks. There were some sketchy parts, and a few people died, but we almost killed Glint (with a PUG that was going for mission only!). I'll admit that the party was sensational and Dragon's Lair isn't the hardest mission, but I think the point is still valid.

EDIT:

Did they make THK easier recently? I did the bonus a few days ago with my mesmer (set on full illusion) and a whole mess of henchies and no living players...

Emik · Jun 27, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

It really depends...
I've seen some valid pointers so far where states that the power of the group will reflect on the succes of the team.
I've been in FoW loads of times as battery Necro with only one monk.
Ok that team was well worked on coz we ALWAYS went in with the same 8 so we knew what to do.